The Very Safe and Effective Vaccine

My point that I am refuting is that the vaccine alone is driving increased cases of myocarditis, which is discredited by the study I linked. Instead, positive cases of COVID-19 are linked at much higher rates of myocarditis, simply than being vaccinated, which is conveniently overlooked by you and others that just discredit the effects of COVID-19 altogether like Sundance. 

Your study even supports what I am saying. You are simply looking at cases of those vaccinated, but the rise of myocarditis was present during the pandemic long before the vaccines were distributed or taken by anyone, which you are choosing to ignore and only attributing it to the vaccine, which is shortsighted. 

From my study.

"We found that across this large dataset, the entire COVID-19-vaccinated population of England during an important 12-month period of the pandemic when the COVID-19 vaccines first became available, the risk of myocarditis following COVID-19 vaccination was quite small compared to the risk of myocarditis after COVID-19 infection," 

In the new study, researchers analyzed records from England's National Immunization database for nearly 43 million people 13 or older who had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine between Dec. 1, 2020 and Dec. 15, 2021. More than 21 million had received three doses of the vaccine ¨C the initial two-shot regimen plus a booster. Nearly 6 million tested positive for COVID-19 either before or after receiving a vaccine. During the one-year study period, 2,861 people ¨C or 0.007% ¨C were hospitalized or died with myocarditis.

The analysis showed people infected with COVID-19 before receiving a vaccine were 11 times more at risk for developing myocarditis within 28 days of testing positive for the virus. But that risk was cut in half if a person was infected after receiving at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine.

The studies that you provided do not refute or disprove any of these findings. 

@DeezyAZ81

 My point that I am refuting is that the vaccine alone is driving increased cases of myocarditis, which is discredited by the study I linked.

Really?  Okay, well the studies have shown that the shot alone does, in fact, increase that select group's risk.  Not much doubt about that.

This is not to say, as the studies point out, that the virus is causing it as well -- maybe even both together can be worse.  

But there is absolutely no doubt that the shots are increasing the risk in the group.

Do you have studies you have seen that refute this? 

@DeezyAZ81

 Your study even supports what I am saying. You are simply looking at cases of those vaccinated

Correct 

@DeezyAZ81

From my study.

"We found that across this large dataset, the entire COVID-19-vaccinated population of England during an important 12-month period of the pandemic when the COVID-19 vaccines first became available, the risk of myocarditis following COVID-19 vaccination was quite small compared to the risk of myocarditis after COVID-19 infection," 

Yessir.  Now you want to take this and isolate out your target group. 

@DeezyAZ81

 The studies that you provided do not refute or disprove any of these findings

Correct.  That is not the point they are questioning. 

Yes. The one I linked and am discussing ha. It's the virus driving rising cases of myocarditis at much higher rates than the vaccination as I am pointing out. Not the other way around. 

@DeezyAZ81

 Look at it this way (assuming you accept the studies).  

It is NOT a binary choice.  Right?

1) You will NOT for sure get the virus.

2) If you DO get the virus you may get inflammation. But it is very rare! But you will overwhelming be completely fine and may not even know you had the virus.

3) If you get the shot you WILL have an increased risk of inflammation, albeit less than the virus itself.  The shot will mainly only be effective on the targeted strain, and only for a small period of time.

4) You are NOT guaranteed to even get the virus.

5) IF you get the shot -- YOU ARE 100% GUARANTEED TO GET the shot.

So, knowing all of that -- is it worth it for a healthy young male to FOR SURE increase his risk for very little reason.  When he may or may not get the virus; the virus may or may not cause inflammation.

This is simple logic for a healthy young male.  We are NOT taking about a young female or an older adult.

That is the conventional way of looking at it FOR A YOUNG AND HEALTHY MALE.

Maybe that can clear it up.  

We are not discussing the same things I do not think. 

@DeezyAZ81

 Yes. The one I linked and am discussing ha. It's the virus driving rising cases of myocarditis at much higher rates than the vaccination as I am pointing out. Not the other way around.

I am NOT disagreeing with you here, nor are the studies.  I think you feel that I am; I am not. 

A simple way to look at it:  the shots alone do increase young males chances for inflammation.  So, knowing this is it worth the risk (very, very small but still there) when you may not even get the virus, and if you do get it, you will be fine.

My entire point is that Sundance's narrative that Bronny had cardiac arrest from the vaccine is highly unlikely. It is more likely if it was COVID-19 related, it was from the virus itself and not the vaccine, which is backed by science.  Mostly likely it was not COVID-19 related at all. It was likely driven by other factors., more intense training, heat, etc. Who knows? The vaxx narrative for every health problem is getting old and tired. 

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/06/heres-all-the-data-on-myocarditis-cases-linked-to-covid-19-vaccines/

This chart from the CDC will show you the reason people pick this subset out.

Look at the expected cases in all of the groups; look at the males; look at the males under 50; then, look at the males between 12-24.

The expected reporting to VAERS for age group 12-17 was 0-4   --  the observed was 128.

The expected reporting to VAERS for age group 18-24 was 1-8   --  the observed was 219.

So, imagine a few subsets of just that age group that are healthy.

I think they say 5% of folks in the USA have not been infected.  But for easy numbers and because some places say it is higher, assume 10%.

NO virus AND NO shot. That subset has a 0% chance of getting any inflammation, period.  

Another subset could be NO virus (at least not yet) AND a shot.  Increased risk is small BUT theoretically 2700% higher than expected.

Another could be GOT the virus AND then got the shot.  This would seem to increase the normal risk already from getting the virus.

Another could be GOT virus and NO shot.  Assume the risk is still very, very low BUT DOUBLE the shot, so 5400% higher than expected.

So, should a young and healthy male get the shot(s) knowing he is NOT guaranteed to get the virus; and if he does get the virus he has very little risk.

Should he get the shot if he has already had the virus.  Is there a point to that added risk.

People forget that males are at an elevated risk normally and the young males and the very old males.

So, why would a normal young male take the guaranteed risk with a shot.  Especially as the virus was weakening and mutating and the shot was no longer effective anyway.

This also does not take into account how far out the potential has to show up.  The virus will be long gone or weakened and they still have the shot in them.  Etc., etc.

@DeezyAZ81

My entire point is that Sundance's narrative that Bronny had cardiac arrest from the vaccine is highly unlikely. It is more likely if it was COVID-19 related, it was from the virus itself and not the vaccine, which is backed by science.  

Yessir.  I got your point.  I simply am saying that this is not as much the case for the young, healthy male as with everyone else.  Normally, I would agree, but not with this age group.

Too many young males have had the inflammation and have been tested for antigens and appear not to have had the virus but have had the shot.

I would agree IF we knew he had taken the shot or IF we knew he had the virus.

In that state and to travel and stuff in his situation (age aside) I think it is more likely he had the shot than the virus.

BUT I do NOT think either caused it for sure. 

@DeezyAZ81

But if you take this as a narrative, I think a lot of folks on the Right are upset because they 'feel' that information was suppressed about the shots and that they were coerced to take it, etc.

I can understand that and even agree with it.  I just cannot automatically assume that it is the situation with every single case that comes up now.

I know it is not fair to compare Len Bias or Hank Gathers, etc.  But this happens more than folks realize.  

Hamlin situation, for example, appeared to be a blunt hit during his heart rhythm like you see with a hockey puck or baseball with young boys.

But in each situation the Right goes straight to the shot(s); the Left then gets all defensive and says it cannot be.

But when this age group for sure has had an increase I do not think we should suppress the fact that this age group was disproportionately affected by the shots either.

@DeezyAZ81

 At any rate.  Good discussion.  Thanks. 

Cardiac arrest can be caused by numerous conditions.  For examples, coronary artery disease, heart attack, enlarged heart, heart valve disease, birth defect and others.

Even without vaccination, young people are naturally at higher risk of rare myocarditis.  Usually caused by various infections.  If a vaccine induces myocarditis, most cases are milder and symptoms go away quickly. So doctors still recommend vaccination for young people.  Benefits outweigh risks and that is what really matters.

Keontae Johnson (College Hoops) just drafted out of Kansas State. I'm sure you remember the name and the event since he suffered from cardiac arrest on court mid-game when he played for Florida in December of 2020. Was said to have contracted COVID-19 during summer of 2020. Was later diagnosed with myocarditis but medical team actually ruled out COVID being the cause. He collapsed on court, 2 days before the first dose of any vaccine was even introduced to the public in the U.S. and was not vaccinated, so also unrelated, although anti-vaxxers have been trying to link his name into conspiracies as well, although the vaccine was not even available yet. 

Obviously, although rare, this $hit happens with high level athletes. Only example, I can think of in any major American sports at college or pro level in which player suffered from cardiac arrest mid-game during a broadcast in the last few years. No, Im not counting Hamlin because he was hit in the chest and hard. 

Singer Tori Kelly rushed to hospital with severe blood clots around her vital organs. The situation is serious! This is another reason the vax is called the clot shot!

@sundance

Debate? He¡¯s bald face liar and should be nailed for lying under oath*, though there¡¯s little chance of that.

*¡°I wanna say this while I¡¯m on the record that in my entire life ¡­ I have never uttered a phrase that was either racist or antisemitic.¡±
¡°¡®I have never been anti-vax¡±
¡°I have never told the public to avoid vaccination¡± The man has his own sister, Kerry Kennedy is denouncing his remarks. He continues to be a giant embarrassment to the family.*

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/rfk-jr-testimony-house-congress-vaccines-anti-vax-1234792491/

¡°When we came up with these incredible vaccines
¡ª three of them! ¡ª we did a TREMENDOUS job, and
we should NEVER disparage them!! We should be
REALLY HAPPY about it because we¡¯ve all saved
MILLIONS of lives all over the world!¡±

                       - indicted TAX FRAUD/SEX-OFFENDER, donald trump, December 2021

260 or so million sheep in the United States  ran out and proudly let someone inject them with the poison from Anthony Fauci. Bronny and Tori Kelly in back to back news cycles with serious health issues that were more than likely caused by the very safe and very effective vaccine. When did America turn into a country of sheep? Do it for your wife. Do it for your kids. Do it for your parents. etc. This was the biggest psy op ever perpetrated upon mankind. 

"I came up with a vaccine - with THREE vaccines!
 All are very, very good!"

                                                - traitor trump 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4orQgi1avP4

@fubah2

 So you¡¯re saying the vaccine isn¡¯t good and it¡¯s trumps fault right? Oh wait republicans say it¡¯s messed up and yet you¡¯re stupid a$$ will say it¡¯s trumps fault the vaccine is so bad when the f-into democrats are the ones pushing the damn vaccine on perfectly healthy people 

you¡¯re a quality human being, for all I care blame trump for the vaccine, who gives a shit he saint never going to have a government position, and I could care less, but how about you he the F off your high horse that democrats handled everything perfectly and did no wrong here, how many democratic politicians made millions if not billions off big pharma from this god sent vaccine while the entire country fell to shit economically? Turd you¡¯re a brainwashed moron and not worth anyone¡¯s time

You are sick pushing this nonsense Sundance. You know absolutely nothing about the health or medical records of Bronny or Tori Kelly, yet feel comfortable just throwing unsubstantiated claims around about traumatic health events. Very sick and irresponsible and the main reason so many Americans remain ill-informed and scared today. Very divisive and sick. 

You do not think Republicans make any money off of big phrama??? 

Get your head out of the clouds, you are truly brainwashed and clueless. 

DeezyAZ81 is right.  From 2021 to 2022, covid vaccination in the US prevented over a million deaths and 18 million hospitalizations according to Commonwealth fund study.  However Brown university study found that 25% to 75% of covid deaths could have been averted if more people had been vaccinated.