Once Republicans obtain power, deficits don't matter
¡°No politician (has) ever lost office for spending more money.¡± Donald Trump reportedly relayed this message from Mitch McConnell to his staff recently, and you can see that philosophy at work in the two-year budget deal he just struck with Congress.
¡°Reagan proved that deficits don¡¯t matter,¡± Vice President Dick Cheney said when the Bush administration sought a second round of tax cuts in 2003.
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Once Republicans obtain power, deficits don't matter
¡°No politician (has) ever lost office for spending more money.¡± Donald Trump reportedly relayed this message from Mitch McConnell to his staff recently, and you can see that philosophy at work in the two-year budget deal he just struck with Congress.
¡°Reagan proved that deficits don¡¯t matter,¡± Vice President Dick Cheney said when the Bush administration sought a second round of tax cuts in 2003.
Once Republicans obtain power, deficits don't matter
¡°No politician (has) ever lost office for spending more money.¡± Donald Trump reportedly relayed this messagefrom Mitch McConnell to his staff recently, and you can see that philosophy at work in the two-year budget deal he just struck with Congress.
¡°Reagan proved that deficits don¡¯t matter,¡± Vice President person Cheney said when the Bush administration sought a second round of tax cuts in 2003.
Who is this reportedly guy I keep seeing in CNN and MSNBC reports ?
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Quote Originally Posted by ilsp2003:
Once Republicans obtain power, deficits don't matter
¡°No politician (has) ever lost office for spending more money.¡± Donald Trump reportedly relayed this messagefrom Mitch McConnell to his staff recently, and you can see that philosophy at work in the two-year budget deal he just struck with Congress.
¡°Reagan proved that deficits don¡¯t matter,¡± Vice President person Cheney said when the Bush administration sought a second round of tax cuts in 2003.
Who is this reportedly guy I keep seeing in CNN and MSNBC reports ?
Last month I withdrew $8K and the bank teller came back with 80 $100 bills... Brand spanking new IN NUMERICAL SEQUENCE.
Me bank Wells Fargo the poster boy of the pathetic savings & loan industry told me while cashing a 1800 dollar check that they only 7 100¡¯ when I asked for 14 at 3:30 pm then asked if they could do anything else for me !
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Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:
Too much money being printed.
Last month I withdrew $8K and the bank teller came back with 80 $100 bills... Brand spanking new IN NUMERICAL SEQUENCE.
Me bank Wells Fargo the poster boy of the pathetic savings & loan industry told me while cashing a 1800 dollar check that they only 7 100¡¯ when I asked for 14 at 3:30 pm then asked if they could do anything else for me !
Stating that deficits are from spending more than you take in is your typical BS reply, that is not the question but thanks for playing stupid again. See me saying the word deficit means by definition that we are spending more than we take in, so that is already clear and your reply adds zero as usual. WHY are we running deficits in THIS economic environment? The question was not ARE we running a deficit...please just do not reply if you are going to play your clueless skit because you are not stupid even if you are acting like it.
Iran is no threat to the US...zero, none...but coming from someone who felt Iraq was I can see how you draw such intelligent parallels, since they are neighbors and since it plays into your silly repub mindset. Iran and Iraq are threats to the Saudis and Israel only, not to us ever.
This amature drone stuff is a false flag to raise oil prices and give the big orange dope a window to start the war drum like his past repub pal.
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SS,
Stating that deficits are from spending more than you take in is your typical BS reply, that is not the question but thanks for playing stupid again. See me saying the word deficit means by definition that we are spending more than we take in, so that is already clear and your reply adds zero as usual. WHY are we running deficits in THIS economic environment? The question was not ARE we running a deficit...please just do not reply if you are going to play your clueless skit because you are not stupid even if you are acting like it.
Iran is no threat to the US...zero, none...but coming from someone who felt Iraq was I can see how you draw such intelligent parallels, since they are neighbors and since it plays into your silly repub mindset. Iran and Iraq are threats to the Saudis and Israel only, not to us ever.
This amature drone stuff is a false flag to raise oil prices and give the big orange dope a window to start the war drum like his past repub pal.
You can't prove me wrong..so.. why are you turning this discussion into personal jabs and partisan finger pointing .. and making false and misleading statements about me..?
I never said I thought Iraq was a threat.,that is untrue..unlike your all knowing assessment, that Iran is not a threat to America..even though... security experts say Iran, by far the most significant security challenge to the
United States, its allies, and its interests in the greater Middle
East...with it's potential for developing a nuclear weapon......
WHY are we running deficits in THIS economic environment?
The state of the economy makes no difference( roaring /flat) )the answer is the same ....we are spending more than what is coming in..at this particular point in time it's a direct result of defense spending just like it's been since 2015..
By the Bye ... "orange dope" is racist comment.
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You can't prove me wrong..so.. why are you turning this discussion into personal jabs and partisan finger pointing .. and making false and misleading statements about me..?
I never said I thought Iraq was a threat.,that is untrue..unlike your all knowing assessment, that Iran is not a threat to America..even though... security experts say Iran, by far the most significant security challenge to the
United States, its allies, and its interests in the greater Middle
East...with it's potential for developing a nuclear weapon......
WHY are we running deficits in THIS economic environment?
The state of the economy makes no difference( roaring /flat) )the answer is the same ....we are spending more than what is coming in..at this particular point in time it's a direct result of defense spending just like it's been since 2015..
How can I prove you wrong, you were asked a SPECIFIC question and you answered with a generic definition which was already known and commonplace. That makes zero sense. Yeah your definition of deficits was correct but that was not the question. Your logic is sliding and the reply after follows the same erroneous path.
Yep I can say that Iran is not a DIRECT threat to the US, yes I can say that. A threat to our friends in Israel or the abhorrent men in Saudi Arabia that is more the case. It is not our job to force Iran or police them, we are already having our hands full with Trump's pal in North Korea.
So restating the definition and not answering the question again is avoiding the question SS....the state of the economy has ALL the difference in the QUESTION posed to you. I didnt ask for a definition of a deficit and you know that. So either answer the direct question or just troll along somewhere else.
Yeah poor Trump the guy never gets a break...
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How can I prove you wrong, you were asked a SPECIFIC question and you answered with a generic definition which was already known and commonplace. That makes zero sense. Yeah your definition of deficits was correct but that was not the question. Your logic is sliding and the reply after follows the same erroneous path.
Yep I can say that Iran is not a DIRECT threat to the US, yes I can say that. A threat to our friends in Israel or the abhorrent men in Saudi Arabia that is more the case. It is not our job to force Iran or police them, we are already having our hands full with Trump's pal in North Korea.
So restating the definition and not answering the question again is avoiding the question SS....the state of the economy has ALL the difference in the QUESTION posed to you. I didnt ask for a definition of a deficit and you know that. So either answer the direct question or just troll along somewhere else.
How can I prove you wrong, you were asked a SPECIFIC question and you answered with a generic definition which was already known and commonplace. That makes zero sense. Yeah your definition of deficits was correct but that was not the question. Your logic is sliding and the reply after follows the same erroneous path.
Yep I can say that Iran is not a DIRECT threat to the US, yes I can say that. A threat to our friends in Israel or the abhorrent men in Saudi Arabia that is more the case. It is not our job to force Iran or police them, we are already having our hands full with Trump's pal in North Korea.
So restating the definition and not answering the question again is avoiding the question SS....the state of the economy has ALL the difference in the QUESTION posed to you. I didnt ask for a definition of a deficit and you know that. So either answer the direct question or just troll along somewhere else.
Yeah poor Trump the guy never gets a break...
Well lets end this lets endless thread and tell us the answer Obi-Wan..if none of mine fit your description ..I'm dying to know..and it better be good .
PS.. I see where The former sheriff of Maricopa County, Ariz.is running for office again..and he say's he plans on winning.
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Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
How can I prove you wrong, you were asked a SPECIFIC question and you answered with a generic definition which was already known and commonplace. That makes zero sense. Yeah your definition of deficits was correct but that was not the question. Your logic is sliding and the reply after follows the same erroneous path.
Yep I can say that Iran is not a DIRECT threat to the US, yes I can say that. A threat to our friends in Israel or the abhorrent men in Saudi Arabia that is more the case. It is not our job to force Iran or police them, we are already having our hands full with Trump's pal in North Korea.
So restating the definition and not answering the question again is avoiding the question SS....the state of the economy has ALL the difference in the QUESTION posed to you. I didnt ask for a definition of a deficit and you know that. So either answer the direct question or just troll along somewhere else.
Yeah poor Trump the guy never gets a break...
Well lets end this lets endless thread and tell us the answer Obi-Wan..if none of mine fit your description ..I'm dying to know..and it better be good .
PS.. I see where The former sheriff of Maricopa County, Ariz.is running for office again..and he say's he plans on winning.
How can I prove you wrong, you were asked a SPECIFIC question and you answered with a generic definition which was already known and commonplace. That makes zero sense. Yeah your definition of deficits was correct but that was not the question. Your logic is sliding and the reply after follows the same erroneous path. Yep I can say that Iran is not a DIRECT threat to the US, yes I can say that. A threat to our friends in Israel or the abhorrent men in Saudi Arabia that is more the case. It is not our job to force Iran or police them, we are already having our hands full with Trump's pal in North Korea. So restating the definition and not answering the question again is avoiding the question SS....the state of the economy has ALL the difference in the QUESTION posed to you. I didnt ask for a definition of a deficit and you know that. So either answer the direct question or just troll along somewhere else. Yeah poor Trump the guy never gets a break...
Well lets end this lets endless thread and tell us the answer Obi-Wan..if none of mine fit your description ..I'm dying to know..and it better be good .PS.. I see where The former sheriff of Maricopa County, Ariz.is running for office again..and he say's he plans on winning.
Wish I could follow you there SS....but I cant say that it is possible.
You can move to the boundary of the county down to Maricopa or Queen Creek, its probably in your price range and Joe would appreciate your vote.
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Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
How can I prove you wrong, you were asked a SPECIFIC question and you answered with a generic definition which was already known and commonplace. That makes zero sense. Yeah your definition of deficits was correct but that was not the question. Your logic is sliding and the reply after follows the same erroneous path. Yep I can say that Iran is not a DIRECT threat to the US, yes I can say that. A threat to our friends in Israel or the abhorrent men in Saudi Arabia that is more the case. It is not our job to force Iran or police them, we are already having our hands full with Trump's pal in North Korea. So restating the definition and not answering the question again is avoiding the question SS....the state of the economy has ALL the difference in the QUESTION posed to you. I didnt ask for a definition of a deficit and you know that. So either answer the direct question or just troll along somewhere else. Yeah poor Trump the guy never gets a break...
Well lets end this lets endless thread and tell us the answer Obi-Wan..if none of mine fit your description ..I'm dying to know..and it better be good .PS.. I see where The former sheriff of Maricopa County, Ariz.is running for office again..and he say's he plans on winning.
Wish I could follow you there SS....but I cant say that it is possible.
You can move to the boundary of the county down to Maricopa or Queen Creek, its probably in your price range and Joe would appreciate your vote.
Whatever President Trump is doing or not doing it's working out for the middle class.
the American middle class is stagnating, shrinking and becoming less secure. the middle class is being squeezed particularly hard, especially on fronts such as healthcare and education. life has become more expensive and more taxing than it was previously, and basic necessities such as food are as hard to afford as ever. many middle-income households face the risk of sliding into the lower class, while some already have.
I'm not sure what planet it is you're living on.
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Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:
Whatever President Trump is doing or not doing it's working out for the middle class.
the American middle class is stagnating, shrinking and becoming less secure. the middle class is being squeezed particularly hard, especially on fronts such as healthcare and education. life has become more expensive and more taxing than it was previously, and basic necessities such as food are as hard to afford as ever. many middle-income households face the risk of sliding into the lower class, while some already have.
the American middle class is stagnating, shrinking and becoming less secure. the middle class is being squeezed particularly hard, especially on fronts such as healthcare and education. life has become more expensive and more taxing than it was previously, and basic necessities such as food are as hard to afford as ever. many middle-income households face the risk of sliding into the lower class, while some already have.
I'm not sure what planet it is you're living on.
Read more info:
A very interesting report on America's shrinking middle class shows, once again, that the middle class is shrinking. And, once again, we see that the middle class is shrinking because people are getting too rich to be considered middle class any more. And if we're honest, the idea that too many people are getting too rich isn't something that is going to keep us awake at night.
We might worry if everyone were becoming too poor to be middle class. We might even worry if one person gets all the goodies leaving some monstrous multiple of those who remain middle class. But that whole swathes of the society are climbing up out of the petty bourgeois lifestyle into the haute bourgeois one shouldn't be causing any night sweats.
It's actually what we'd like to be happening to everyone in fact. The mixture of capitalism and free markets has meant that, in places which have actually been doing those things for more than a few decades, we've entirely destroyed the peasant and then proletarian lifestyles of yore.
Seriously, what is wrong with the idea of a society where more people have the resources to live a decent life?
The latest piece of evidence comes from economist Stephen Rose of the Urban Institute, who finds in new research that the upper middle class in the U.S. is larger and richer than it¡¯s ever been. He finds the upper middle class has expanded from about 12% of the population in 1979 to a new record of nearly 30% as of 2014.
'Any discussion of inequality that is limited to the 1% misses a lot of the picture because it ignores the large inequality between the growing upper middle class and the middle and lower middle classes,' said Mr. Rose. The Urban Institute is a nonpartisan policy research group.
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Quote Originally Posted by darkmetal:
the American middle class is stagnating, shrinking and becoming less secure. the middle class is being squeezed particularly hard, especially on fronts such as healthcare and education. life has become more expensive and more taxing than it was previously, and basic necessities such as food are as hard to afford as ever. many middle-income households face the risk of sliding into the lower class, while some already have.
I'm not sure what planet it is you're living on.
Read more info:
A very interesting report on America's shrinking middle class shows, once again, that the middle class is shrinking. And, once again, we see that the middle class is shrinking because people are getting too rich to be considered middle class any more. And if we're honest, the idea that too many people are getting too rich isn't something that is going to keep us awake at night.
We might worry if everyone were becoming too poor to be middle class. We might even worry if one person gets all the goodies leaving some monstrous multiple of those who remain middle class. But that whole swathes of the society are climbing up out of the petty bourgeois lifestyle into the haute bourgeois one shouldn't be causing any night sweats.
It's actually what we'd like to be happening to everyone in fact. The mixture of capitalism and free markets has meant that, in places which have actually been doing those things for more than a few decades, we've entirely destroyed the peasant and then proletarian lifestyles of yore.
Seriously, what is wrong with the idea of a society where more people have the resources to live a decent life?
The latest piece of evidence comes from economist Stephen Rose of the Urban Institute, who finds in new research that the upper middle class in the U.S. is larger and richer than it¡¯s ever been. He finds the upper middle class has expanded from about 12% of the population in 1979 to a new record of nearly 30% as of 2014.
'Any discussion of inequality that is limited to the 1% misses a lot of the picture because it ignores the large inequality between the growing upper middle class and the middle and lower middle classes,' said Mr. Rose. The Urban Institute is a nonpartisan policy research group.
Congress made a deal to spend minimum 1 trillion a year to the deficit because of military spending. They quietly vote in to pass the budget for the military war complex every year. Everyone deals in billions, they deal in trillions. They make big pharma look like scraps. They buy off everyone, both sides. They buy off Congress, those in the highest positions in the military and there is no hope. Trump gave a great answer in an interview how there are those that only care about keeping troops in the Middle East. Bush had no idea he had opened up Pandora's Box. Once the money flowed it was over. US is never leaving the Middle East, never. Too many trillions to be made. Go look up the budget numbers that get passed each year for the military. I believe it was around 400 billion a few years ago. It jumped to over 700 billion now. How there ever be a surplus when you have this number hanging over your head each year WSC?
It will never matter who the President is that number is never going down, only up up up. There is your answer WSC. Knock it off being childish with Slim. You do bring up good topics but never want to have a real discussion. Sad.
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Congress made a deal to spend minimum 1 trillion a year to the deficit because of military spending. They quietly vote in to pass the budget for the military war complex every year. Everyone deals in billions, they deal in trillions. They make big pharma look like scraps. They buy off everyone, both sides. They buy off Congress, those in the highest positions in the military and there is no hope. Trump gave a great answer in an interview how there are those that only care about keeping troops in the Middle East. Bush had no idea he had opened up Pandora's Box. Once the money flowed it was over. US is never leaving the Middle East, never. Too many trillions to be made. Go look up the budget numbers that get passed each year for the military. I believe it was around 400 billion a few years ago. It jumped to over 700 billion now. How there ever be a surplus when you have this number hanging over your head each year WSC?
It will never matter who the President is that number is never going down, only up up up. There is your answer WSC. Knock it off being childish with Slim. You do bring up good topics but never want to have a real discussion. Sad.
Congress made a deal to spend minimum 1 trillion a year to the deficit because of military spending. They quietly vote in to pass the budget for the military war complex every year. Everyone deals in billions, they deal in trillions. They make big pharma look like scraps. They buy off everyone, both sides. They buy off Congress, those in the highest positions in the military and there is no hope. Trump gave a great answer in an interview how there are those that only care about keeping troops in the Middle East. Bush had no idea he had opened up Pandora's Box. Once the money flowed it was over. US is never leaving the Middle East, never. Too many trillions to be made. Go look up the budget numbers that get passed each year for the military. I believe it was around 400 billion a few years ago. It jumped to over 700 billion now. How there ever be a surplus when you have this number hanging over your head each year WSC? It will never matter who the President is that number is never going down, only up up up. There is your answer WSC. Knock it off being childish with Slim. You do bring up good topics but never want to have a real discussion. Sad.
Do me a favor as you play the little game as usual....in this thread, FOLLOW THE FLOW before you start crying. Start at the top, read the replies, then read my replies and my questions and so on and so on.
SS is a big boy, he is older than all of us, he has been playing games on this site for over ten years, the only difference is that without his alias friend there is nobody getting personal and nasty like there used to be...you guys who like to complain are nothing compared to the past guy who also failed at actually carrying on a conversation, it always turned personal and nasty for him and for many here because when someone actually asks a legit question and holds you to it then most crumble.
The issue is that for how many years you guys whined and moaned and pointed fingers and blamed when Obama was in office, he was the cause and to blame and the GOP was so much better and blame blame blame, so now the biggest loudmouth in the history of the country got his time after all his bashing and belittling and finger pointing and what has gone on? Are we taking responsibility or just ignoring the monster numbers and pointing at the establishment? I dont seem to recall a blanket generalization explanation for failures then yet you use it now...seems pretty hypocritical to me.
I think it would take someone super strong to break the corporate hold on our process now but for sure it is not the abuser-in-chief even though he berated and blamed and promised when he wasnt in the hot seat.
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Quote Originally Posted by 165yds:
Congress made a deal to spend minimum 1 trillion a year to the deficit because of military spending. They quietly vote in to pass the budget for the military war complex every year. Everyone deals in billions, they deal in trillions. They make big pharma look like scraps. They buy off everyone, both sides. They buy off Congress, those in the highest positions in the military and there is no hope. Trump gave a great answer in an interview how there are those that only care about keeping troops in the Middle East. Bush had no idea he had opened up Pandora's Box. Once the money flowed it was over. US is never leaving the Middle East, never. Too many trillions to be made. Go look up the budget numbers that get passed each year for the military. I believe it was around 400 billion a few years ago. It jumped to over 700 billion now. How there ever be a surplus when you have this number hanging over your head each year WSC? It will never matter who the President is that number is never going down, only up up up. There is your answer WSC. Knock it off being childish with Slim. You do bring up good topics but never want to have a real discussion. Sad.
Do me a favor as you play the little game as usual....in this thread, FOLLOW THE FLOW before you start crying. Start at the top, read the replies, then read my replies and my questions and so on and so on.
SS is a big boy, he is older than all of us, he has been playing games on this site for over ten years, the only difference is that without his alias friend there is nobody getting personal and nasty like there used to be...you guys who like to complain are nothing compared to the past guy who also failed at actually carrying on a conversation, it always turned personal and nasty for him and for many here because when someone actually asks a legit question and holds you to it then most crumble.
The issue is that for how many years you guys whined and moaned and pointed fingers and blamed when Obama was in office, he was the cause and to blame and the GOP was so much better and blame blame blame, so now the biggest loudmouth in the history of the country got his time after all his bashing and belittling and finger pointing and what has gone on? Are we taking responsibility or just ignoring the monster numbers and pointing at the establishment? I dont seem to recall a blanket generalization explanation for failures then yet you use it now...seems pretty hypocritical to me.
I think it would take someone super strong to break the corporate hold on our process now but for sure it is not the abuser-in-chief even though he berated and blamed and promised when he wasnt in the hot seat.
the Urban Institute, who finds in new research that the upper middle class in the U.S. is larger and richer than it¡¯s ever been.
Oh great, the UPPER middle class is expanding and getting richer. keyword here- UPPER. what about the mid-middle and lower middle class though? they are routinely strapped. more than one in three middle class families report having difficulty in meeting basic needs. but that's okay- because the peak demographic of the "middle" class is getting richer? the UPPER class expanding is not solving any problems of the middle class.
Rents are sky-high, houses are extremely expensive and wages are stagnated. you pretty much HAVE to be getting richer quickly to keep up, and that's obviously not happening to the average middle class family.
the middle class is shrinking because BOTH the upper class and lower class have taken in more members in the past few decades. to put it literally, the rich are getting richer and the poor are remaining poor. the suggestion that the poor are doing better because the upper class has expanded is faulty. there are people out there who make six figures, yet they outspend their income on a month by month basis because life in some areas has become egregiously expensive- so even many of them can't make ends meet. you basically have to be making a very high salary at this point to secure yourself, obviously not every middle class member is going to be able to do that.
just providing healthcare for your family and putting your offspring through college has become a complicated hedge maze that costs thousands of dollars to navigate. let's not even get into stuff like mortgage debt and retirement accounts- where, again, the middle class is totally falling behind. well over half of people in the middle class carry credit card debt; does that strike you as a semblance of wealth? it's not.
unsecured personal loans have gained popularity again, as middle class members go deeper into debt just to stay in the middle class. it's not a pretty sight and the idea that the middle class is doing very well because the rich have gotten richer is incorrect.
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Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:
the Urban Institute, who finds in new research that the upper middle class in the U.S. is larger and richer than it¡¯s ever been.
Oh great, the UPPER middle class is expanding and getting richer. keyword here- UPPER. what about the mid-middle and lower middle class though? they are routinely strapped. more than one in three middle class families report having difficulty in meeting basic needs. but that's okay- because the peak demographic of the "middle" class is getting richer? the UPPER class expanding is not solving any problems of the middle class.
Rents are sky-high, houses are extremely expensive and wages are stagnated. you pretty much HAVE to be getting richer quickly to keep up, and that's obviously not happening to the average middle class family.
the middle class is shrinking because BOTH the upper class and lower class have taken in more members in the past few decades. to put it literally, the rich are getting richer and the poor are remaining poor. the suggestion that the poor are doing better because the upper class has expanded is faulty. there are people out there who make six figures, yet they outspend their income on a month by month basis because life in some areas has become egregiously expensive- so even many of them can't make ends meet. you basically have to be making a very high salary at this point to secure yourself, obviously not every middle class member is going to be able to do that.
just providing healthcare for your family and putting your offspring through college has become a complicated hedge maze that costs thousands of dollars to navigate. let's not even get into stuff like mortgage debt and retirement accounts- where, again, the middle class is totally falling behind. well over half of people in the middle class carry credit card debt; does that strike you as a semblance of wealth? it's not.
unsecured personal loans have gained popularity again, as middle class members go deeper into debt just to stay in the middle class. it's not a pretty sight and the idea that the middle class is doing very well because the rich have gotten richer is incorrect.
Oh great, the UPPER middle class is expanding and getting richer. keyword here- UPPER. what about the mid-middle and lower middle class though? they are routinely strapped. more than one in three middle class families report having difficulty in meeting basic needs. but that's okay- because the peak demographic of the "middle" class is getting richer? the UPPER class expanding is not solving any problems of the middle class.
Rents are sky-high, houses are extremely expensive and wages are stagnated. you pretty much HAVE to be getting richer quickly to keep up, and that's obviously not happening to the average middle class family.
the middle class is shrinking because BOTH the upper class and lower class have taken in more members in the past few decades. to put it literally, the rich are getting richer and the poor are remaining poor. the suggestion that the poor are doing better because the upper class has expanded is faulty. there are people out there who make six figures, yet they outspend their income on a month by month basis because life in some areas has become egregiously expensive- so even many of them can't make ends meet. you basically have to be making a very high salary at this point to secure yourself, obviously not every middle class member is going to be able to do that.
just providing healthcare for your family and putting your offspring through college has become a complicated hedge maze that costs thousands of dollars to navigate. let's not even get into stuff like mortgage debt and retirement accounts- where, again, the middle class is totally falling behind. well over half of people in the middle class carry credit card debt; does that strike you as a semblance of wealth? it's not.
unsecured personal loans have gained popularity again, as middle class members go deeper into debt just to stay in the middle class. it's not a pretty sight and the idea that the middle class is doing very well because the rich have gotten richer is incorrect.
Not really. The point is more have moved upward out of the 'middle-class' category. Folks would have you believe it is because they got poorer. That is not the case at all.
It is more than perspective and listening to the wrong folks. You have to read more and really understand the dynamics.
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Quote Originally Posted by darkmetal:
Oh great, the UPPER middle class is expanding and getting richer. keyword here- UPPER. what about the mid-middle and lower middle class though? they are routinely strapped. more than one in three middle class families report having difficulty in meeting basic needs. but that's okay- because the peak demographic of the "middle" class is getting richer? the UPPER class expanding is not solving any problems of the middle class.
Rents are sky-high, houses are extremely expensive and wages are stagnated. you pretty much HAVE to be getting richer quickly to keep up, and that's obviously not happening to the average middle class family.
the middle class is shrinking because BOTH the upper class and lower class have taken in more members in the past few decades. to put it literally, the rich are getting richer and the poor are remaining poor. the suggestion that the poor are doing better because the upper class has expanded is faulty. there are people out there who make six figures, yet they outspend their income on a month by month basis because life in some areas has become egregiously expensive- so even many of them can't make ends meet. you basically have to be making a very high salary at this point to secure yourself, obviously not every middle class member is going to be able to do that.
just providing healthcare for your family and putting your offspring through college has become a complicated hedge maze that costs thousands of dollars to navigate. let's not even get into stuff like mortgage debt and retirement accounts- where, again, the middle class is totally falling behind. well over half of people in the middle class carry credit card debt; does that strike you as a semblance of wealth? it's not.
unsecured personal loans have gained popularity again, as middle class members go deeper into debt just to stay in the middle class. it's not a pretty sight and the idea that the middle class is doing very well because the rich have gotten richer is incorrect.
Not really. The point is more have moved upward out of the 'middle-class' category. Folks would have you believe it is because they got poorer. That is not the case at all.
Another way to look at it is by this guy¡¯s quote:
What makes you suggest the standard has gone down?
I'd suggest the ¡°standard¡± has rocketed and Americans now need two incomes to pay for it.
Just a few personal anecdotes I was born in the mid-60¡¯s growing up we had one car as did all of my friends until the mid-80¡¯s when my ¡°rich¡± friends got a second. We kids didn't have our own cars we borrowed moms.
I knew few people with central air and even fewer with AC in an auto.
I had one friend with a boat. Family vacations tended to be road trips to a shared family cabin and that one time you got to drive cross country to Disney Land/World.
It was a hard consideration as far as college and who would get family help.
In contrast I'm a middle class father of 4, I own 4 vehicles all have AC, I have a 3 car garage. That's larger than the home I grew up in.
My home is centrally heated and cooled, my boys have been to 25+ states and likely will all attend college.
My point isn't ¡°oh look at me¡± quite to the contrary I'd suggest I'm the American average.
I remember ¡°hobos¡± coming to my grandmas back door looking for work.
Today those who want a home, a cell phone and govt assistance can likely access it through a myriad of government programs.
Point being even our less fortunate live better than the middle class did 30 years ago.
Nah - our ¡°standard of living¡± is amazing it just means two need to work to float it.
0
Another way to look at it is by this guy¡¯s quote:
What makes you suggest the standard has gone down?
I'd suggest the ¡°standard¡± has rocketed and Americans now need two incomes to pay for it.
Just a few personal anecdotes I was born in the mid-60¡¯s growing up we had one car as did all of my friends until the mid-80¡¯s when my ¡°rich¡± friends got a second. We kids didn't have our own cars we borrowed moms.
I knew few people with central air and even fewer with AC in an auto.
I had one friend with a boat. Family vacations tended to be road trips to a shared family cabin and that one time you got to drive cross country to Disney Land/World.
It was a hard consideration as far as college and who would get family help.
In contrast I'm a middle class father of 4, I own 4 vehicles all have AC, I have a 3 car garage. That's larger than the home I grew up in.
My home is centrally heated and cooled, my boys have been to 25+ states and likely will all attend college.
My point isn't ¡°oh look at me¡± quite to the contrary I'd suggest I'm the American average.
I remember ¡°hobos¡± coming to my grandmas back door looking for work.
Today those who want a home, a cell phone and govt assistance can likely access it through a myriad of government programs.
Point being even our less fortunate live better than the middle class did 30 years ago.
Nah - our ¡°standard of living¡± is amazing it just means two need to work to float it.
If you make more than $36000, you are the 1% in the world economy! You may complain that you arent the 1% of the 1%, but you are the 1%. Its because living in the US has provided the freeest, fairest economy in the world. The economy that has lifted more ordinary people out of poverty that any in history. Extreme poverty worldwide has been defined as living on $1.90 a day and was common everywhere including the US. It is less than 10% of the worlds population and unheard of in the US. A decade ago it was 36% of the world. The left continues to insist that we tear down the success and replace it with policies that have resulted in tyranny, poverty, murder and misery in 100 % of the cases! Stop whining and read some reality.
0
Or even this guy¡¯s quote:
If you make more than $36000, you are the 1% in the world economy! You may complain that you arent the 1% of the 1%, but you are the 1%. Its because living in the US has provided the freeest, fairest economy in the world. The economy that has lifted more ordinary people out of poverty that any in history. Extreme poverty worldwide has been defined as living on $1.90 a day and was common everywhere including the US. It is less than 10% of the worlds population and unheard of in the US. A decade ago it was 36% of the world. The left continues to insist that we tear down the success and replace it with policies that have resulted in tyranny, poverty, murder and misery in 100 % of the cases! Stop whining and read some reality.
The same is true of the deficit. We all know it is bad. But look at American's personal finances. We are in tremendous personal debt. And keep getting further in debt. We want what we want, and we want it now. So, consequently we run up our own debt.
We do the same thing as a nation.
When I try to get folks out of debt, they never want to cut back on spending. They do not realize that to sacrifice now would be beneficial long-term. Same thing with us as a country.
Sure, we need to cut back. But where do you think the Democrats are going to allow cutbacks?
Same thing when Democrats are in office. Where do you think they want to cut back? And where will Republicans allow cuts?
We live in the best country -- by far -- of all time. So, I never have an issue with how high my taxes are. I simply have an issue with what we spend my taxes on.
Same thing with folks that say they didn't get as much of a tax refund back last year. Of course, they are right -- and wrong. They had more coming to them through the year is all. Overall they brought home more last year. It is very easy to see the brackets and where they changed. Unless you made more then $500,000. So, all a matter of perspective -- sometimes.
0
The same is true of the deficit. We all know it is bad. But look at American's personal finances. We are in tremendous personal debt. And keep getting further in debt. We want what we want, and we want it now. So, consequently we run up our own debt.
We do the same thing as a nation.
When I try to get folks out of debt, they never want to cut back on spending. They do not realize that to sacrifice now would be beneficial long-term. Same thing with us as a country.
Sure, we need to cut back. But where do you think the Democrats are going to allow cutbacks?
Same thing when Democrats are in office. Where do you think they want to cut back? And where will Republicans allow cuts?
We live in the best country -- by far -- of all time. So, I never have an issue with how high my taxes are. I simply have an issue with what we spend my taxes on.
Same thing with folks that say they didn't get as much of a tax refund back last year. Of course, they are right -- and wrong. They had more coming to them through the year is all. Overall they brought home more last year. It is very easy to see the brackets and where they changed. Unless you made more then $500,000. So, all a matter of perspective -- sometimes.
No question that the standard has gone up for the lower and middle class from the 70's and 80's forward. Those at median income and even slightly to moderately below live a MUCH better average life than 30 years ago, no question.
The problem is that we have turned into a consume now economy and that comes at the expense of savings and the future, but the media and public perception/decisions are that we need to consume now. We need to have the monster tv and new car, greatest phone and go on great vacations. Few of the decisions people make are for longer than the year they are in. People do not understand that the future is coming, it is real and nobody is prepared for it.
I drive a paid off car that is 12 yrs old, sure I could go and get a newer model or one I might like more but then why do I need a new car when the one I have is great, it functions well and has depreciated the majority of what it will...just keep driving it even if that means making repairs because those repairs cost less than a car payment or sinking funds into a depreciating asset.
The way we consume now on ALL income levels is a bad thing, yet without it corporate profits would be much less, stock market much lower, risk assets much lower even if that meant higher savings levels.
I never hear people discussing being frugal and prudent, making good financial decisions and planning..its all selfish now I need talk and decisions being made.
The fact that the average standard of living has gone up with savings going down and real wages flat to down is an enormous problem that nobody cares to discuss or address.
0
No question that the standard has gone up for the lower and middle class from the 70's and 80's forward. Those at median income and even slightly to moderately below live a MUCH better average life than 30 years ago, no question.
The problem is that we have turned into a consume now economy and that comes at the expense of savings and the future, but the media and public perception/decisions are that we need to consume now. We need to have the monster tv and new car, greatest phone and go on great vacations. Few of the decisions people make are for longer than the year they are in. People do not understand that the future is coming, it is real and nobody is prepared for it.
I drive a paid off car that is 12 yrs old, sure I could go and get a newer model or one I might like more but then why do I need a new car when the one I have is great, it functions well and has depreciated the majority of what it will...just keep driving it even if that means making repairs because those repairs cost less than a car payment or sinking funds into a depreciating asset.
The way we consume now on ALL income levels is a bad thing, yet without it corporate profits would be much less, stock market much lower, risk assets much lower even if that meant higher savings levels.
I never hear people discussing being frugal and prudent, making good financial decisions and planning..its all selfish now I need talk and decisions being made.
The fact that the average standard of living has gone up with savings going down and real wages flat to down is an enormous problem that nobody cares to discuss or address.
We have a society now that has so much compared to the past. We also are a society that cannot wait. We all want what everyone else just got and we want it now.
Therefore, our government has the same attitude. No long term planning. We don't plan for our retirement; so, the government does not plan for the future either. So, almost hypocritical for people that don't have their own house in order to want others and/or the government to do so.
And also disingenuous for each party to bellyache when they are all (or nearly) seem okay with it.
0
Absolutely spot-on
We have a society now that has so much compared to the past. We also are a society that cannot wait. We all want what everyone else just got and we want it now.
Therefore, our government has the same attitude. No long term planning. We don't plan for our retirement; so, the government does not plan for the future either. So, almost hypocritical for people that don't have their own house in order to want others and/or the government to do so.
And also disingenuous for each party to bellyache when they are all (or nearly) seem okay with it.
Last month I withdrew $8K and the bank teller came back with 80 $100 bills... Brand spanking new IN NUMERICAL SEQUENCE.
To your point TheGoldenOne...as long as the federal debt is denominated in U.S. dollars, there is no reason why the U.S. would have to go into default.
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Quote Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:
Too much money being printed.
Last month I withdrew $8K and the bank teller came back with 80 $100 bills... Brand spanking new IN NUMERICAL SEQUENCE.
To your point TheGoldenOne...as long as the federal debt is denominated in U.S. dollars, there is no reason why the U.S. would have to go into default.
Congress made a deal to spend minimum 1 trillion a year to the deficit because of military spending. They quietly vote in to pass the budget for the military war complex every year. Everyone deals in billions, they deal in trillions. They make big pharma look like scraps. They buy off everyone, both sides. They buy off Congress, those in the highest positions in the military and there is no hope. Trump gave a great answer in an interview how there are those that only care about keeping troops in the Middle East. Bush had no idea he had opened up Pandora's Box. Once the money flowed it was over. US is never leaving the Middle East, never. Too many trillions to be made. Go look up the budget numbers that get passed each year for the military. I believe it was around 400 billion a few years ago. It jumped to over 700 billion now. How there ever be a surplus when you have this number hanging over your head each year WSC?
It will never matter who the President is that number is never going down, only up up up. There is your answer WSC. Knock it off being childish with Slim. You do bring up good topics but never want to have a real discussion. Sad.
165yds,
That's the crux of the whole problem and the most important part of it which affects everything else.....
Early last month President Trump signed the Bipartisan Budget Act of 2019 into law. The bill raises the 2011 Budget Control Act and a raises budget caps by $320 billion.
for both defense and non-defense for FY 2020 and FY 2021...
The bill also suspended the debt ceiling through July 31, 2021 and
extends cuts on certain mandatory programs from FY 2027 to FY 2029..
Under current law, there are no caps on defense and non-defense
discretionary spending for FY 2022 and beyond. ....this means there is
no longer a statutory ceiling on spending, and after FY 2021, there will be no ceiling on the defense budget and no floor. So, you are correct ..whoever is the President will not matter without a budget ceiling the number will not go down only up..
Since, this bill was passed by a Democrat Congress..you are correct 165yds... Congress was bought off..( both sides)..and the House as holders of the purse strings ... are the one's responsible for increased spending and the need to barrow to pay for it..
0
Quote Originally Posted by 165yds:
Congress made a deal to spend minimum 1 trillion a year to the deficit because of military spending. They quietly vote in to pass the budget for the military war complex every year. Everyone deals in billions, they deal in trillions. They make big pharma look like scraps. They buy off everyone, both sides. They buy off Congress, those in the highest positions in the military and there is no hope. Trump gave a great answer in an interview how there are those that only care about keeping troops in the Middle East. Bush had no idea he had opened up Pandora's Box. Once the money flowed it was over. US is never leaving the Middle East, never. Too many trillions to be made. Go look up the budget numbers that get passed each year for the military. I believe it was around 400 billion a few years ago. It jumped to over 700 billion now. How there ever be a surplus when you have this number hanging over your head each year WSC?
It will never matter who the President is that number is never going down, only up up up. There is your answer WSC. Knock it off being childish with Slim. You do bring up good topics but never want to have a real discussion. Sad.
165yds,
That's the crux of the whole problem and the most important part of it which affects everything else.....
Early last month President Trump signed the Bipartisan Budget Act of 2019 into law. The bill raises the 2011 Budget Control Act and a raises budget caps by $320 billion.
for both defense and non-defense for FY 2020 and FY 2021...
The bill also suspended the debt ceiling through July 31, 2021 and
extends cuts on certain mandatory programs from FY 2027 to FY 2029..
Under current law, there are no caps on defense and non-defense
discretionary spending for FY 2022 and beyond. ....this means there is
no longer a statutory ceiling on spending, and after FY 2021, there will be no ceiling on the defense budget and no floor. So, you are correct ..whoever is the President will not matter without a budget ceiling the number will not go down only up..
Since, this bill was passed by a Democrat Congress..you are correct 165yds... Congress was bought off..( both sides)..and the House as holders of the purse strings ... are the one's responsible for increased spending and the need to barrow to pay for it..
Who is this reportedly guy I keep seeing in CNN and MSNBC reports ?
Don't try to spin it
After the Republicans gained control of the US Senate in the 2002 election, giving them across-the-board dominance of the legislative and executive branches of the federal government, the key players in the administration of President George W. Bush gathered to discuss fiscal policy.
Vice President person Cheney wanted to cut taxes for the rich.
Treasury Secretary Paul O¡¯Neill was skeptical. According to his recounting of the incident in Ron Suskind¡¯s brilliant book, The Price of Loyalty, O¡¯Neill expressed concern that a trillion dollars worth of tax cuts had already been enacted. And he argued against Cheney¡¯s position, suggesting that another tax cut was unnecessary and unwise.
¡°You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don¡¯t matter,¡± said the vice president. ¡°We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.¡±
Who is this reportedly guy I keep seeing in CNN and MSNBC reports ?
Don't try to spin it
After the Republicans gained control of the US Senate in the 2002 election, giving them across-the-board dominance of the legislative and executive branches of the federal government, the key players in the administration of President George W. Bush gathered to discuss fiscal policy.
Vice President person Cheney wanted to cut taxes for the rich.
Treasury Secretary Paul O¡¯Neill was skeptical. According to his recounting of the incident in Ron Suskind¡¯s brilliant book, The Price of Loyalty, O¡¯Neill expressed concern that a trillion dollars worth of tax cuts had already been enacted. And he argued against Cheney¡¯s position, suggesting that another tax cut was unnecessary and unwise.
¡°You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don¡¯t matter,¡± said the vice president. ¡°We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.¡±
"People said I want to go and buy debt and default on debt, and I mean,
these people are crazy," said the presumptive GOP nominee. "This is the
United States government. First of all, you never have to default
because you print the money, I hate to tell you, OK?¡±
0
Donald Trumlo ......
"People said I want to go and buy debt and default on debt, and I mean,
these people are crazy," said the presumptive GOP nominee. "This is the
United States government. First of all, you never have to default
because you print the money, I hate to tell you, OK?¡±
We have unlimited spending.... We steal 2.7 trillion from our retirement to give the war industry a blank check. But it's not enough so we take money from citizens who earn it. It's still not enough. Our deficit is what the rest of government needs..... simple figure pointing does not work Republican Democrat all the same..... they are owned by oil pharma and war I industry.... funny all of em are owned by the same citizens who own everything anyway..... the ones who bet the economy would collapse in 2008..... the same ones who picnic at the grove summer August at mdi and own 99% of America and free world interest.... same families who are in charge and subsequently responsible for a vast majority of of America.... Trump does not fit in this order. He is a new money freeloader. And has no place in the inner circle of those who actually own everything.
0
We have unlimited spending.... We steal 2.7 trillion from our retirement to give the war industry a blank check. But it's not enough so we take money from citizens who earn it. It's still not enough. Our deficit is what the rest of government needs..... simple figure pointing does not work Republican Democrat all the same..... they are owned by oil pharma and war I industry.... funny all of em are owned by the same citizens who own everything anyway..... the ones who bet the economy would collapse in 2008..... the same ones who picnic at the grove summer August at mdi and own 99% of America and free world interest.... same families who are in charge and subsequently responsible for a vast majority of of America.... Trump does not fit in this order. He is a new money freeloader. And has no place in the inner circle of those who actually own everything.
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