I'M NOT LOOKING FOR AN ARGUMENT...BUT

Thx Cash...

As someone on the inside, seeing and hearing a great deal about the industry, I thought that this thread would make sense to those that come to Vegas and help them to understand everything from comping to the nuances of the R&S books....especially as to how management sees that part of the business.

I always enjoyed using my several offshore accounts....espeicially when I wanted to parlay American Idol to Little League..LOL....Seriously, I would sit at my computer and watch races on TVG from all over the country on my TV, make dozens of bets and have a great time; even tried ingame betting a few times years ago....something Vegas hates (but, with the incursion of Cantor Gaming on the scene, is now the hot option for sports betting).

With tokes its about $20 an hour...not too bad

Good thread.

I think the only 1-2% of casino profits stat is misleading.  In terms of all the money WAGERED in the casino I am sure that the money bet in the sports book is far far far more than 1/50 of all the money wagered in that casino.  For a big event like the Superbowl or March Madness Id guess half the money bet in the casino that day is bet on sports.  Id guess the sports books make casinos 10-20% of their income but they do some accounting tricks to say it only makes 1-2%.  They wouldnt be putting thier asses on the line alllowing people to bet on things they can actually win on for that small a portion of thier income.

Unlike the house games the casino can actually lose on sports.  How often does a craps table get hot enough to really worry casino bosses???  Few times a year maybe?  Every day the casino has to worry about getting its clock cleaned in sports. 

Remember the weekend the Pats rolled Tampa in England?  All the favorites like Indy covered thier 10 point spreads and Vegas was crying murder.  It can happen.  Much more of a liability for them than someone not rolling a 7 for 3 hours.  I understand why they limit peoples bets.

Bash this if you please but...

Why doesn't Reno get any love?

Vegas has been very good to me, Living there and working at Mandaly and MGM Grand has made me many friends.  I love going to the deli at the book and the cook on duty gives shit to me for free, or talk my way past the ridiculous $25 cover charge at Mixx. 

However, comps in Reno are so much more plentiful and yes, you do get rated for your sports wagering at Atlantis and Peppermill I know.  Vegas relates to the LA crowd, bright lights, glam, in your face....Reno is laid back Norther Cali Style..What makes Reno the obvious choice for a sports gambler is the quality skiing of Lake Tahoe during the down time. 

Vegas is on the decline because of greed and over expansion.  Reno is treating their consumers genorously and although its dump, is moving in the right direction.

Yeah I agree Chef Reno is solid Atlantis and Peppermill are great casinos and the rooms are so nice and cheap compared to the good places on the strip.  Better destination if your just there to bet your sports and chill out or go skiing, if your with a bunch of people who want the party experience or clubs or whatever its not that at all however.

Downtowns a little shitty but who cares its close and you dont have to walk to anything, Cal Neva and the Circus are both great for certain things and they are the bottom of the barrel casinos.  Hard to find a bad word to say about Reno Nevada, I lived there a few months and loved it, shame I couldnt have stayed the winter through the ski season after I bought a pass!

Where do I start with some of these responses?...

Esplanade.....My main point was stop bitching about Vegas sportsbooks; casino management could care less that the sportsbook exists...it is only there as a convenience for their table games clients that want some diversion. Since this is a website for, almost exclusively, sports bettors...then why not use this forum to provide some insight into the industry as it is in Vegas.

Devils/Rivers.....I have good friends with the MGM/Mirage company (not mine, thank G-D)....their base per hour ranges from a low in the $10 range to slightly over $14 ( I will not tell you the hotels to honor his confidence) and tokes average...when its really good...another $3 per hour. Most of the MGM properties don't come close to that number; especially now during baseball season. $20 per hour does not happen anywhere...and you can include March Madness and SuperBowl weekend in those calculations.

WestHam.....1-2% of the PROFITS...period.You can choose to believe that or not; but comps in the sportsbook (not racing) do not really exist for the reason of PROFITABILITY. Their asses ARE on the line, which is why you read, many times, about the limits that many books put on sports bets.

Guys, I started this thread because of the massive negativity being tossed out there concerning Vegas sportsbooks. Is management second-rate? Sure. Could Vegas be more responsive to their customers, re: juice and betting options? Sure.The only sportsbook/company in Vegas that is giving the bettor what they want is Cantor Gaming..at The M Hotel and at The Venetian (partial).

Chef...and other....Vegas is not "on the decline"....our country is on the decline. Vegas is just reflective of why people buy their steaks at Walmart, regardless of quality, instead of their local butcher. Dollar slots players now play quarters, quarter slot players now play penny slots....buffets now offer "all day meals" for one price....BUT, make no mistake, the QUALITY  of Vegas is still there, if you can afford it (hello Asia, Canada, Europe). It's trendy to say that Vegas is on the decline..and blame management. But, when you favorite family restaurant closes down in your hometown, when the local movie theatre closes down, when your strip mall becomes a ghost town...do you blame greedy management?.....I don't think so.

So, stop bitching about the only state in this country that allows you to....with TOTAL confidence...bet on a sports game. Period, end of story. I'm off my soapbox; I really don't think that there are people out there that want to get this concept and no one....no one....will be able to convince them otherwise.

Peace

VegasGourmet

I will be the last one to "bitch" about a sports book because I obviously like getting my CASH after the game rather than wait for a check.  But you can't ignore the obvious.  My opinions are not based once a year trips, I used to live in Vegas and have returned VERY often.

Have you ever been a "fly on the wall" for a owner and share holder metting of MGM/Mirage?  I have as I worked a private lunch meeting and heard from former CEO Terry Lanni's mouth about the Macau and city center projects before the public knew.

Did you take a hard hat tour of Red Rock and have Station Casino Execs brag to you about the price tag it took to build this place? Not only have I, but last summer the CEO of the company I worked for now told me how my company can aquire these hotels for pennys on the dollar.

Have you been to Macau to see the vacated construction sites of casinos MGM can not afford anymore?

Overexpansion, at one time Vegas was the foreclosure capital.  When you take everyones homes and cars, they have nothing left to give. Having bankrupt California as your biggest marketing area can't help matters. I hope its staring to turn around.

My OPINION on what has declined:

1. Then, Gold Coast was my favorite casino for double deck black jack as they offered it at many tables. Now, Double deck is difficult to come by and when you do it pays 6:5 for a natural.

2. Then, a Superb restaurant offers hand picked herb salad and Amadai flown in from Japan. Now, there is a big differance paying a union cook $16/hour and a 14 year old in France doing it for free so corners are cut offering local snapper and prepacked micro greens.

3. Then, fake titted cocktail servers gladly bring me a Hennessey and red bull or cappacuino. Now, the serve yourself drink station at M Casino that rarely even has ice.

Gaming, food, and service have all declined.

Are any of these improvements? 

Lets not lose site of your thread, its all about what is good about sports betting in Vegas and my original reply was I rather go to Reno where they appreciate the consumer.  The Hospitality industry is about repeat business and you don't have to be a whale to get treated right.

3.

Chef.....You are one helluva writer! Seriously, I truly enjoyed your postings/comments/past thoughts on this topic....and I cannot argue with or disagree with anything that you have said.

With one exception.....Whether it be Terry, Jim , Steve, Sheldon, one of the Fertitta's, whoever.....this town (God Bless Bugsy) will survive; and those that come here and truly enjoy the uniqueness of why this town exists, will be part of its survival.

I started coming out here in the early 70's, and knew then that my last years would be here. No offense to Reno (or Pahrump for that matter); but Sin City will always be the first and foremost for what it offers.

With an acknowledgement to my screenname: When I go to MacDonalds, I know what to expect...and get what I expect. When I go to Prime, I know what to expect...and get what I expect.

Expanding on that: When I go to The Bellagio, I know what to expect and get what I expect. When I go to The Jokers Wild, I know what to expect...and get what I expect.

Your observations are spot on...and I would have that drink of Hennessey with you anytime; but take it from someone old enough to be your old uncle, Don't dwell on the past and use that to lament the future....the glass in Vegas is half-full, someone with a smile on their face (and fake tits) is still happy to fill your glass up.

After I posted I thought to myself, Maybe my view is askew from living there in the tail end of the housing boom and good times and seeing what it is now.  The service industry is becoming a "do it yourself" everything automated industry everywhere. 

I just didn't see the need for Green Valley Ranch to remodel their sportsbook, poker room, etc...it had an intimate feel to it. 

Soon all sportsbooks will no longer have ticket writers, it will be handled by kiosk. 

Anyhow, I still reflect on the past of what it was like being a Vegasinsider and miss that lifesytle.  It was a sad day when the strip bar next to Jokers Wild closed.

Chef....

There are still some stip clubs over there where the old ones come to work....helluva lot of fun....

GVR was another Fertitta mess....sportsbook management was really a problem.....would still like to see Greenspun find another partner for the property; but The District is going through a small recession itself and that will probably impact on any changes.

Just as the racetracks put in automated machines to take your bets, it could happen here. What Cantor Gaming is doing with its technology could eliminate the frontline workers...they would only need the "suits" to handle the business of betting.

I believe that the next five years are going to see a lot of changes in this town. Sheldon Adelson (Venetian/Pallazzo) does not seem to be in touch with the market; Steve Wynn seems to have "shot his load" and is either bored or, now that he is single, looking to do something else somewhere. Both see Macau as their future.

MGM is going to sell The Mirage (probably already has) to Ruffin and don't be surprised if it also sells Mandalay/Luxor/Excalibur as a package. Boyd Gaming could end up a big winner here and that could put a lot of new emphasis on gambling in this town, something that has taken a backseat to retail/food/hotels.

Guys, If you think that I'm BigKat, go back to his last posting about "No Sharps" and see my response....

If you think that I'm a pompous, self-important fool, then I'm sorry for the impression; but I'm not him.

Before moving out here permanently from the East Coast, I was MrOPC, the champion of the 5-inning bet....those that do it now will remember me.

And, Maxx, as to Stations....they are looking to hold onto GVR and Red Rock and move the rest. When they filed for bankruptcy protection for GVR, Greenspun did not file (he has 50%).however...so, the possibility of a split of those two hotels might happen.