I'M NOT LOOKING FOR AN ARGUMENT...BUT

There have been postings in this forum that cause me to start this thread. If you don't like what I'm going to say, let me apologize in advance; but I'm going to tell you the truth...how you deal with it is your business. This website is, for the most part, all about sportsbetting. And, currently, the only ways to bet sports in this country are: 1. With your local bookie (illegal), 2. Offshore (theoretically illegal), and 3. In Las Vegas.

So, let's talk about sports betting (and sportsbooks) in Las Vegas.

1. There is no sportsbook, on or off the Strip, in any Hotel/Casino that contributes more than 1-2% of the TOTAL PROFIT of the casino to that hotel. NOT ONE. Let me put that another way, over 98% of all money taken in by the casino comes from slots and floor games....not the Race & Sportsbook.

2. The people you see behind the counters at the Race & Sportsbooks are the lowest paid employees at the casino. They are non-union and make much less, per hour, than those employees that clean the bathrooms or make your beds. Most "ticket writers" are attracted to the job because of their interest in sports/racing...and they like to bet sports also.

So, if you think that the hotel/casino cares about your bets on the games, you are totally wrong. As an aside, this is why almost all hotels offer NO comps for sports betting...only race betting. And, due to rising costs and decreases in overall betting volume throughout the casinos, comps are being cut back also.

I've read the gaming industry forum and find 99% negativity about offshores...perhaps rightly so. But to be so negative about Las Vegas, it's costs and it's workers, is not fair. You cannot compare this city (or state) to any other; there is no other that has hospitality as its major industry. "Disposible income" is less for almost all of us...those that come here and those that live here. Expectations are, unfortunately, out of sync with reality.

So, next time you come out here; whether you stay at Circus Cicus or you stay at The Bellagio; whether you can spend $500 for a meal or go to MacDonalds across from The Hotel at Mandalay Bay....deal with your own reality.If you want Fantasyland, go to Disney.

And, just remember again....If EVERY hotel/casino closed their sportsbooks, they wouldn't care....but, and this is a BIG BUT...this is the ONLY PLACE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT YOU CAN BET SPORTS LEGALLY AND TRUST HOW BUSINESS IS BEING CONDUCTED.

nc...

Thx...and I was alluding to, mostly, those hotels/casinos on the main Strip...between The Wynn and Mandalay Bay.

What pisses me off is the lack of consistency between casinos that are owned by the same company....

Typically, the Food & Beverage Manager of the hotel gets the responsibility for instructing the cocktail waitresses as to free drink policy; and each hotel has their own Manager....consequently, each hotel can be different..even though they are owned by the same company.

As for the ticket writer and drink tickets; I knew of one ex-ticket writer who always had the most tokes at the end of his shift....he was also the one writer that all the regulars would go to for free drink tickets...it was cheaper to toke the writer a couple of bucks than buy Patron or doubles of whiskey.

Good luck getting a shot of Patron with one of those tickets.

It makes me sick that I live 10 minutes from 8 different books but I send my money half way across the world for better juice and better lines.  And honestly I think I have every right to be angry and disgusted by that.

Maxx...

I have taken sportsbets in excess of 100 dimes...not an issue as long as the bettor is known to the hotel. The runners are looked at closely (hello Billy)...but the individual high rollers are always given an opportunity to bet whatever. Typically, a certain amount is taken at the current line, then the juice is moved for the next bet from that bettor. Often then, the juice is moved back for the general public.

Vegas is dying a slow death since it has gone corporate. Have to worry about pleasing shareholders instead of building a solid business.

The days of Benny Binion are gone and the gamblers are slowly leaving.

VegasMaxx I agree completely.  If competition was economically sound then all companies would offer nearly the same LOW juice across the board w/ small exceptions. The more sound & better customer service etc the company has...the more likely the book succeeds. My only guess on why these books succeed at 20 cent lines is that gamblers have no where else to go so they turn to the semi-shady dealings of these foreign books.

Kind of sounds like those who smoke Marijuana. We want to find it local and cheap but because the government wants to tell us what to do we have to find it from unreliable sources so we pay alot of money. In both cases if you LEGALIZE IT the price would go down so small individual companies can earn their share of the market by being superior to these seed selling, 20-cent line offering fucks. Grreed, laziness, or complacency I'm not sure which.

Maxx...

I don't assume that you are a moron and I'm not quite certain why you have to be angry with me with your postings. I write facts, not emotion. I have no idea why the SouthPoint would only take a dime bet from you, Michael Gaughan runs a very successful casino and a very successful book with, usually, decent lines...although I did find them very slow to react to the market changes for the Superbowl.

While my 100 dime example was with a Strip casino and not a local and I while do agree with you concerning the "corporatization" and "cannibalization" of much of Vegas, it's still important to recognize the legitimacy of the business, the need to broaden how the industry is marketed and run, and..for the most part...that means corporate management rather than private enterprise (like Michael Gaughan's operation).

...and, Maxx, I have to reiterate my earlier posting for you.

No sportsbook in all of Vegas accounts for MORE than 2% (closer to 1%) of the profits from the casino. (The sportsbook director reports to the casino director...unless you're Chuck Esposito).

The race and sportsbook is offered as a betting convenience to the customers of the hotel/casino and, if every sportsbook was closed tomorrow,management would be very happy....just more room for the penny slots.

The days of the sportsbooks on the strip or the "Sport of Kings" racebook are long gone.

And to mwhit in Indiana......I read the gaming forum here every day and see nothing but bitching and complaining about almost every offshore book.....yet, since there is a sucker born every minute, they continue to take your money and find new ways to piss you off. Sure, you can get those 5 cent lines on Friday night, you just can't get your money for weeks.

I'll take Vegas, legalized sports betting, and the lines that they set over Costa Rica anyday....and get my money 10 seconds after the game has ended.

Maxx...totally agree...and had been (before I moved) with 5Dimes and The Greek for years. I do believe that offshore has become, however, a much bigger problem than it was 5 years ago. Call it greed, also, but lack of control and the obviously inability to get your money in the case of a dispute really causes me to be more aprehensive about offshore than ever before. If I were to go back to an offshore, I would never keep more than a dime or two in my account, and would never use bank transfers or divulge any legal information. I'll pay the WU or Moneygram fees and remain fairly anonymous.

However, given the option of paying the extra 10cents and not giving any personal info...and shoping for the lines that I like best....we still have, on/near the Strip more than 7 separate companies with, fairly, competitive lines.

PS...Glad to see that you're not mad at me   

Maxx.....in response to your second post this a.m.

Agree, again....But, with the exception of The M (Cantor Gaming), you are not going to see sportsbetting as it used to be. The VP/Casino Operations, who the sportsbook manager reports to, only cares about losing money and not making money. From firsthand knowledge, they are totally incapable of understanding how the racebook is a goldmine...their only concern in lowering costs...and getting those race/sports bettors out to the casino floor.

Once again, my emphasis is on the Strip (or close to) casinos....and not the locals.

I see no point to this thread, and I might be the only one as everybody thinks its a great post lol

It seems to be the poster is trying to let some covers people how to follow the money in vegas.  got it, sportsbooks only exist to "fill -out" the suite of gambling alternative, they do not make much profit at all.  Got it.

But it was not always this way was it?  No a couple decades ago Vegas WAS a very important part of sports gambling, but now it is not.  Why did this happen?  Its because a BETTER product wwas introduced - online wagering.  Never leave the comfort of your undies and your home, and place wagers, Great!! 

Most all sports gamblers have flocked to offshore accounts, and that industry is thriving.  Is there many complaints about offshor books, of course and that will never end.  But the mere FACT that the masses choose to go online, is eveidence enough its a better alternative for the serious or the casual gambler.

I have been online wagering pretty much since it started, I began with CRIS because I did my homework, and I knew it was a solid book.  Since I have tried 5Dimes, and Pinnacle (back in the day), and CRIS again.  I am now a long time client trading wagers on MAtchbook.  I have never had any hassle whatsoever from any of the mentioned books.  Payouts and deposits sometimes get tricky, but that is because of our elected officials making things difficult for us players.  Why would they want to restrict this trade?  It has nothing to do with bible thumpers and votes, its all about the Vegas lobbyist.  They seek to PROTECT their industry, and th cash talks.

this poster makes it seem as if wagering online was a journey of traps and deception.  I have had nothing but pure enjoyment primarily because I don't use shit books.  If you want to get lured into the latest hot bonus program, go right ahead, a fool and his money are soon parted.

Vegas sports books have paved their own way to this misery because of their own actions and their inability to innovate.  I think its silly to cry for this industry because its not the way it used to be.  And I think perfectly legit for posters to come here to this forum to tells whats good and bad from their experiences.  Thats why this is here (more so the Gambling Industry thread).

I don't make it vegas too much, but when I do I will stop in maybe make a few wagers and try to suck a free drink out of them, then go about my business to table games, clubs, person, etc.  I will never understand why anybody would want to hang round a sportsbook to watch the action, but thats just me.

Internet gambling is here to stay, and if you want no hassles you go with one of the best books.  If you get lured into silly bonuses, thats your choice and you will have a lousy experience.

sportsfan....

I have been an online, offshore customer long before you; but let's not make this a "pissing contest.".....As I have said in other forums, Vegas has had to come to grips with the advances of the online books with ingame betting, 5-inning lines, reduced juice promotions, and many more.

Vegas is STILL an important part of sports gambling, just sit down with Mr Walters and ask him if he would prefer The Greek over The Bellagio.

Am I championing Vegas sports betting?, no..not really. But pointing out its legality as compared to Costa Rica is pointing out the obvious....until Barney Frank can get enough backing it will stay this way.

For the thousandth time.....This is a website for sports gamblers, Vegas exists for the table games and slots gamblers...so, OBVIOUSLY, we are looking at the dichotomy of the issue from a viewpoint that is quite slewed. I started this post not to defend Vegas; only to point out that Vegas..for those that frequent this site, does not care about what you care about.  

As to your personal interaction with offshores...good for you. Perhaps only a small fraction of customers are the ones bitching and moaning in the gambling industry forum. I have had nothing but good relations with 5Dimes, who seems to have turned a corner to being the bad guy...don't know, don't really care.

To answer Gamble04.....Average per hour wage, not including tokes (which have gotten much less)...$11-13 per hour.

OK First off let me just thank VegasGourmet for this thread. I am not saying it's the most eye opening thread of all time, just wanted to give him credit for starting it.....and then responding with some good posts later on. I particularly liked the line where you said to vegasmaxx, "I'm not quite certain why you have to be angry ..."

And then Maxx explained what he was talking about, and you guys had a discussion. Not a fucking internet fight like you usually see when a point gets misunderstood lol. So credit to both you guys.

I only say this because this thread was entertaining, and informative. Another example of why Covers rocks.